Playin’ Tough - a Craps winning method

Unsolicited testimonial on Marvin Goldstein's book:
Playin' Tough
for Winning at Craps

You gave me good insights on the practical application of the dice tracking strategy and you kept me out of harm's way on more than one occasion – especially not making lay bets when numbers were often repeating and points were previously being made.

I used “repeating numbers” to my advantage after you left.
During our session, (what you accurately described as a cat and mouse game) I was up $35 at the time you left. I stayed another hour. During that last hour, I noticed many numbers were repeating but the shooter was unable to make his/her point. I made lay bets and employed a counter-action strategy making come bets (up to three and removing them after they hit). This left the lay bet finally winning when the shooter “7nd-out.”

As 7's moved closer together the table got colder; I skipped come bets and made lay bets. Toward the end of the session, on any given roll, I was seeing the classic outside numbers and box cars signaling a “7-out” was imminent.

I must say I was able to use a lot of tools covered in your book which gave me a much better grasp (almost insightful) of what was occurring on the table, when others, including dealers did not.

Craps dealers and Pit Crews often refer to someone
who wins consistently as a “Tough Player”

CRAPS: Betting for Success!

Tough Players do not merely recognize changing table conditions. They take advantage of them! By putting analysis into action, "Tough Players" become "High-Performing" Winners!

"Beating the craps tables on a consistent basis is not easy, it requires dedication and hard work, but with the knowledge and techniques revealed in my book, most anyone can be successful!"

What you learn from my book is different from anything you have ever seen before!

Though many have diligently tried, very few players have been able to solve the mystery that is the game of craps. It’s an intriguing game that gives the impression to both the novice and experienced player alike that it can be beaten on a consistent basis. It has some of the best odds of any casino game and incorporates the only bet in the casino that pays correct odds.

But alas, over the last century thousands of systems have been devised by knowledgeable and not so knowledgeable players, but, none have proven successful over the long term. System developers have expended enormous amounts of time and effort (not to mention money) testing every progression and every theory of bet selection known to man, but to no avail. And in almost every case, eventually comes their declaration “the game can’t be beaten”.

There is one huge factor that has contributed greatly to the System Developers’ lack of success. They have, by and large, closed their minds to the fact there might actually be some rhyme and reason to the game. They never considered that there might actually be some element of predictability.

Most players have resigned themselves to losing in the long run even though they keep hoping for the big win. But what if that was all changed? What if every time you walked up to any craps table any where, no matter what the conditions, you knew in your heart you were going to win? Think of how it would feel to know the secrets of what is happening on a craps table and how to take advantage of favorable situations that occur with almost every shooter! Wouldn’t it be great if a craps table was no longer a mystery?

I am telling “you” craps players the “so-called” experts have led you astray. The game of craps can be beaten on a long term basis and there are professional players who consistently beat the tables day in and day out.

My book on craps “Playin’ Tough” will open your eyes to aspects of the game that most have never seen nor considered. It is the culmination of my many years of experience as a dealer and professional craps player.

My experience as a dealer gave me knowledge and insight from the perspective of the casino. I came to understand the mindset of the dealers as well as how the supervisors think. I also learned some little tricks the casino uses against players; especially when someone is having a hot roll.

When I moved to the other side of the table, my experiences as a craps player the first couple of years were not all good. I had some wins but I really had my share of frustrating losses. Lack of knowledge, no discipline and poor money management almost resulted in my total demise.

Fortunately, because I was willing to keep an open mind concerning the game of craps and I was willing to do what was necessary to win, I eventually began to develop methods that allowed me to succeed. Add to that some valuable insights I learned from other pros and my fortunes at the tables improved greatly over the years.

In my book Playin' Tough, I don’t just give you some supposedly “sure fire winning system” that ultimately proves to be worthless, but I convey little known information and insights that every player needs to be a long term winner.

Yes, I do give you several highly effective methods and approaches to the game that myself and others have used very successfully, but I also give you knowledge and insight of which only a select group of pros are aware.

There is a lot more to beating the game
long term than just learning a craps system.

Have you ever noticed how some craps dealers can often tell you exactly what’s going to roll before it happens? Or, they seem to know when a player is going to have a good roll. It is not because they are psychic. It is, because, as I stated previously, there is rhyme and reason to the game of craps.

Dealers see thousands and thousands of dice rolls and even though they may not be consciously aware of what they are seeing (in terms of patterns, cycles, etc.), subconsciously they are picking up on what is actually going down on that particular table at that point in time. They don’t know how they know what’s happening, they just know because they have seen it so many times.

One of the great revelations in my book is how you can consciously learn to see what is happening on the table and make the appropriate plays to take advantage of it. You can actually begin to see the rhyme and reason behind the rolls.

As you study Playin’ Tough, you will begin to see the game of craps from a new perspective and you will realize why all those other craps systems failed. The fact is they never really had a chance to work because they were developed from a flawed perspective.

A truism of gambling is that you can never force an event to occur. This is especially true with craps. My book will teach you how to go with the flow of events and how to be on the right side of the trend more often than not. When you know what to look for, it won’t matter to you whether the table is hot, cold, or choppy. You can actually turn the odds into your favor by placing the right bet at the right time.

The topics covered in Playin’ Tough represent knowledge gained over 12 years of part time and full time professional play. I go into almost every aspect of the game in detail. Some subjects covered are: The Misleading House Percentage, Dice Tracking and Craps Insight, to name only a few. In addition there are many dice strategies used by myself and other pros. Also included are graphic illustrations regarding table trends, several live dice sessions, tracking sheets that can be used in live casino play and much more.

Imagine the profits you could make if you knew the strategies and methodologies of the world’s greatest craps players! Well, in my book Playin’ Tough I share powerful methodologies used by one of the best craps players in the world, Mr. Gene Franiak, Las Vegas Tournament Champion, and my first dice instructor. I also show you special strategies that made Mr. Franiak a champion player.

In addition, Mr. Stuart Hallmark, “the Gambling Guru,” my peer and frequent advisor, opened my eyes to many things I had failed to see. You could say that his insights were the last piece to the puzzle which resulted in my “Playin’ Tough,” and beating the game consistently.

Besides revealing little known or understood aspects of the game and in addition to the strategies and methodologies used by the best pro players, I also included in the book forms for copying and printing allowing you to do some homework on your own. And naturally I provide contact information in case you ever need further assistance. As a matter of fact, you can reach me at email: mag816@worldnet.att.net any time and I will be happy to answer your questions before and after your purchase.

“Playin’ Tough” and dice tracking (hundreds of hours of live dice rolls which I have personally recorded) are available now for $175 on one computer CD. Included are the 950 Pages of dice tracking, which are excellent aids not only for study of the game but for practice as well.

For those who want 8.5”x11” hard copy printed pages, three-hole punched and placed inside a three-ring binder, the price is $225 – and it also includes 950 pages of dice tracking on a separate computer CD.

Please note that this book cannot be emailed as its size exceeds 48MB. It can be sent only on a CD (the entire package) or as a printout of the book with a CD containing the dice tracking, shipped to you by first class air mail directly by the author.

Beating the game of craps long term does require study, practice and determination. But the rewards are great for those willing to pay the price. Imagine the satisfaction you will experience when you can consistently walk away from any craps table you play with more money than when you arrived. And don’t be surprised if you overhear a dealer say, “That guy was really ‘Playin’ Tough’!”

So, here is your opportunity to discover little known facts the pros have learned and kept to themselves. You can consistently extract money from the casinos on a daily basis if you know how.

My book contains the answers and is available now; it is worth its weight in gold for the serious craps player.

Click here to order with the secure on-line form,

$175 for a CD with the entire package, $225 for the printed book and a CD with dice tracking.

Frequently Asked Questions on
Marvin Goldstein's book
Playin’ Tough
for Winning at Craps

Q. What is your opinion of controlled throwing? Is there something to it? Hal Roth of teachmecraps.com (he has played craps for 60 years and still plays and is sharp at his age 83) says there is definitely something to controlled throwing, what do you think?

A. There are presetting specialists, like Steve Holtom (from Texas), who offers seminars around the country -- his entourage includes heavy-hitters, also presetting specialists -- if you are capable of controlling your dice throws, consistently, you have an edge -- if your perception of depth and your throw is accurate, you have an edge -- I am not capable of presetting dice and throwing with accuracy; as a matter of fact, I rarely ever throw dice -- I am too busy tracking, and paying attention to other table situations.

Q. What can I get out of your book that will improve my play?

A. I do not rely on systems -- although my book provides some "mechanical" techniques, it is not about "mechanical" dice systems, but, rather "Table Trends" (cold, choppy, hot, warm) and "dice patterns" (the sequence of dice numbers rolled); situations informing you about switching (from DO to Don't) (from Don't to Do) -- if you are a DO player and the table turns and you do not like, or never played the "darkside," sit out and do nothing until there is a situation telling you to play again -- the same holds true for "darkside" players (in reverse).

Whatever the current events are requires a decision: which side do you want to play – my book “Playin’ Tough” illustrates how you make decisions …

You will never win every bet.

There are days when winning $1 or breaking even is difficult.

It is NOT imperative to have a bet on the table every time the dice are rolled.

It is NOT fun losing.

You must constantly pay attention to current table events.

You should read the book many times before it is fully understood.

A. Tunica, MS when I travel; haven't been to Vegas in many years; Five days a week I play at Blue Chip Casino, Michigan City, Indiana; 48 miles from home ...

Q. Hello Marvin,

I have been playing craps for over 30 years and believe I understand the rules quite well.

To date, I have not been able to consistently beat the game.

My goal is to be able to win 20-30 units per day consistently.

My questions are:

Q1. Is that goal realistic?

A1. Anything is always possible and the casino's policy for maximum allowable odds ("taking" or "laying" the point [or other number]) is always factored in your objective as is the table trend ...

Q2. How large a buy in do you need per session (number of units) using the techniques you suggest in your book?

A2. My goal is 10% of the buy-in ... I have witnessed players winning $900 with just a $20 buy-in, $4,500 with $2,000 buy-in (it is not so much the buy-in as it is the $$$ amount of your wager[s] along with the table trend) ...

Q3. How many units do you need for your bankroll to use the techniques which you recommend?

A3. My buy-in is $500 per session and when required I switch when it is apparent to do so ...

Q. Hi Marvin,

I am looking for a way to supplement my income …

Can I make a living at Craps using your methods?

A. Yes!

Q. How much would I need to make 1000 weekly ?

A. $1,000 a week – five days a week = $250 net profit daily

$250 profit should be 10% of your buy-in (not your sustainable bankroll) –

It requires switching from Do to Don’t and Don’t to Do when table conditions require this action.

Three days ago I watched two players at my table “Playin’ Tough”; one bought in for $20 and walked with $900 – the other bought in for $500 and walked with $4,500 –

Table conditions are imperative as to which side you play and when to switch …

Q. How many hours would I have to invest to make that much?

A. Four to six hours and two or more open tables if you are not willing to remain that long at one table only …

Well, I had some questions for Marvin as well, and here is the conversation we had, that you may find useful from both a system usage perspective and Marvin's views, as his table sessions are based on his definition of: "the law of diminishing probabilities".

Q. Take the strategy where you place a bet on both Pass and Don’t Pass Lines and if the shooter’s point is a 4 or 10, then you lay odds on the Don’t Pass Line -- Those odds have no ‘house vigorish’.
If you lose your bet, your next bet on Don’t Pass Line odds will triple when the shooter’s point is 4 and 10. As you lose, you keep tripling, so as to cover the previous loss and make 1-unit profit at a 7-out.
You can triple up to 4 or 5 times without exceeding table limits.

If you look at the Craps tester book by Erick St. Germain, this strategy wins for the first 62 pages; only after that we see shooter’s point repeating 6 times, crashing the progression, although it could have happened any time.

If the shooter’s point is 4 or 10: On a $10 bet, you would lay the Don’t Pass with $20 to win $10 on a 7-out.
If you lose, you would lay the Don’t Pass with $60 to win $30 to cover the previous $20 loss and still make $10 profit.
If you lose, you would lay the Don’t Pass with $180 odds to win $90 to cover the previous $80 loss and still make $10 profit.
If you lose, you would lay the Don’t Pass with $540 odds to win $270 to cover the previous $260 loss and still make $10 profit.

Of course, you would bet the same amount on the Pass Line and the Don’t Pass Line at first to be able to place such odds on the Don’t Pass Line.

This is what I mean with tripling odds: you lay on the Don’t Pass, should the point 4 or 10 repeat.

So the above progression covers 4 consecutive losses on repeating shooter’s point of 4 and 10.
And it works for 62 pages, making about 93 units of $10. The loss costs 80 units.

Do you think flat betting and laying Don’t Pass Odds for shooter points 4 and 10 is more advantageous?

A. Laying odds along side your Don't Pass flat bet is dangerous if 4s and 10s are hitting consistently -- Lay the 4 or 10 earns 1/2 of your lay bet -- Depending on the table situation, a better lay bet may be a missing 5 or 9 earns $20 for $30 lay; a missing 6 or 8 earns $20 for $24 lay There are always winning opportunities for Don't Players ... For example: Shooter establishes the point 10: rolls 6 or more times and makes the point -- this shooter's 2nd point attempt is a different number and rolls 6 or more times but never rolls another 10 and makes the 2nd point -- now this same shooter comes back with the 10 again -- this time however, it is a logical lay bet because the 10 never popped during the shooter's 2nd point dice rolls.

Q. I think in the long run, one would break even, since there is no house vig. How would you treat this?

A. I "dog-paddle" up-stream, slowly, waiting for better Don't Pass opportunities to lay odds.

I see many outstanding opportunities for Pass Line Players, if, and only if, they are willing to wait for their "Window of Opportunity!" color-up and leave -- the casino will be there another day to try their luck again.

More often than not, greed "kills" all players who do not know when to lighten up their bets, stay off the table (wait), or leave while they have money in their pocket.

Q. Do you usually quit when you’re a few units ahead?

A. If I am down, any amount three times, and recover to my previous highest point, I color up and leave.

Q. In your odds description, I saw the house advantage on Don’t Pass line bets is smaller than Pass Line bets. Can we then conclude Don’t Pass Line bets win a bit more than Pass line bets?

A. Not necessarily; sometimes the Pass Line wins more often, but wagered $$$ laid against the point can make the "winning" difference.

Q. That also means it’s possible the Don’t Pass bets win maybe 51% of the time and Pass line bets win about 49% according to the above total criteria. Do you agree with this?

A. Sometimes, it is the opposite: Pass Line wins 51% and Don't Pass Wins 49% The Pass Line is supposed to win 45% of the time because of come 7 and 11 dice rolls; the rest of the time (after a point is established) the advantage is reported to change in favor of Don't Pass bettors (of course, this does not always hold true)

What is occurring at my table may be different at the table next to me and I would not know because I am concentrating on my table situation.

Supposedly, the Pass Line wins 49.3% of the time and Don’t Pass should win 50.7%

Q. Why is there a difference in the house edge?

A. It is physically impossible to sit on the Pass Line and win because Don’t Pass wins more decisions and the reasoning is logical because the #12 is barred and the casino does not pay Don’t Pass bets on a come-out #12 (boxcars)

Therefore, when you sit on the Don’t Pass line, the Pass Line will ultimately win more because you don’t get paid on one of the Don’t Pass wins.

There is only 4/100ths of a percent difference and this favors the Don’t Pass player.

Mathematically, you have to play 400 decisions before seeing a difference of 1 or more Don’t Pass than Pass (this is IF mathematics of the game expressed themselves perfectly, which they never do).

Over the long haul, it will come close, but in a limited number of trials they are most often skewed one way or the other and other times they are really skewed as you and I well know.

Additionally, deviations will, sometimes, last for many hours and even many days at one table – I have had Blue Chip dealers tell me their evening tables have been ice cold or too hot to handle for two and three days non-stop

I doubt it is ever 50-50 but the occurrence is possible. "House Edge" is the casino's built-in "fudge-factor"

I witnessed many players “plowing” through a session with huge bets and at some point in time at my table they get wiped out.

My comfort zone is utilizing what I see to my advantage without risking my buy-in (not my bankroll) watching numbers hitting back-to-back, missing numbers, dice rolls in which the "7" is popping closer and closer together.